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	<title>Comments on: Chong Zi Liang thinks integration can&#8217;t be forced by government initiatives.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/2009/09/24/chua-ziliang-thinks-integration-cant-be-forced-by-government-initiatives/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/2009/09/24/chua-ziliang-thinks-integration-cant-be-forced-by-government-initiatives/</link>
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		<title>By: A. Choy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/2009/09/24/chua-ziliang-thinks-integration-cant-be-forced-by-government-initiatives/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Choy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/?p=167#comment-121</guid>
		<description>I agree much with Zi Liang and too, with Pritam.

Singapore has surely come a very long way since the 1960s, Singapore is a &quot;Rojak&quot; of races, and cultures. we are where east literally meets west, where Chinese fail mandarin, and Indians speak the Hokkien Dialect. 

I do believe that as Singaporeans, our lives have been ever-improving, and poverty midst the pure-bred-Singaporeans (families who has several Singaporean generations) is quickly shrinking, and increased education, we have somewhat come to expect higher paying jobs, and tend to shun low wage / dirty jobs (unless it is what one enjoys i.e. hawking / nursing)

As we begin to shun upon these jobs, we begin to put ourselves in a psychological state which proclaims ourselves as being more superior, creating an imaginary line within our delicate society, developing biased opinions against those of a lower &quot;class&quot;.

having said this, we Singaporeans want to be CEO, Bank managers, Doctors, Safety Officers, Architects etc. We constantly forget that someone still has to be the bank teller, the construction worker, the nurses, and the night soil workers.

Like what Pratim mentioned, the jobs of locals are not displaced by those of foreigners, simply because they are here, to patch up the potholes of a fully functioning society which we refuse to fill.

Certainly there are many immigrants who take on high paying jobs in large firms. That is simply because the firm deems it as a requirement for the company, to gain perspective which most of of us Singaporeans do not posses. Inversely, we have Singaporeans who immigrate to Canada, Australia, and other parts of the world.

It is definitely difficult for foreigners to integrate adequately into our society, simply because the ethnic group we have locally are all tainted with that of another, and cannot be deemed &quot;pure&quot; in any way. 
If an Indian (from India) were to come to Singapore, he would be confused by the Kway-Teow, Nasi-Ikan, and Teh-Chino that the Indian stalls serve ( i.e. Prata Shops ). 

Integrating the foreigners is never an easy task here, because in order to be deemed a &quot;Singaporean&quot;, you would need to understand a little of every ethnic group, and be able to tolerate each of their diverse practices.

I truly believe that a &quot;Dummy&#039;s guide to being Singaporean&quot; could be of much help in such circumstances.

However, the &quot;Speak Good English Campaign&quot; seems to attempt to eradicate our globally renowned &quot;Singlish&quot;. 
Singlish is a byproduct of our Society&#039;s delicate entanglement, something that all of us Singaporeans can truly call &quot;Ours&quot;, as it transverses all ethnic groups. Malays who say &quot;Makan already Lah&quot;, Chinese who say &quot;Mata lai liao&quot;, and Indians who say &quot;Siao la you&quot;, can only come from Singapore (or in some cases, Malaysia).

True, we need to retain a high standard of the English language so as to communicate proficiently those of  Western Origins, but honestly speaking, as long as you are from another Country, the slang is bound to catch up with you. Canadians, Americans, Australians, and British people are frequently laughing at each other&#039;s slang, and all these countries speak &quot;proper English&quot;. If they do, and still suffer such a fate, why then should we morph into something we are not just to satisfy them when we are already capable of communicating with them adequately.

Personally, i feel that integration into our complex society, simply requires one to open one&#039;s mental eyes, and observe, identify, and respect our diverse practices. one does not require to say &quot;lah, lee, loh, siao, bayee, thumbi, makan, liao&quot; in order to be called a Singaporean. Saying these, is just a byproduct of being in a mixed society long enough.

my 3 cents worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree much with Zi Liang and too, with Pritam.</p>
<p>Singapore has surely come a very long way since the 1960s, Singapore is a &#8220;Rojak&#8221; of races, and cultures. we are where east literally meets west, where Chinese fail mandarin, and Indians speak the Hokkien Dialect. </p>
<p>I do believe that as Singaporeans, our lives have been ever-improving, and poverty midst the pure-bred-Singaporeans (families who has several Singaporean generations) is quickly shrinking, and increased education, we have somewhat come to expect higher paying jobs, and tend to shun low wage / dirty jobs (unless it is what one enjoys i.e. hawking / nursing)</p>
<p>As we begin to shun upon these jobs, we begin to put ourselves in a psychological state which proclaims ourselves as being more superior, creating an imaginary line within our delicate society, developing biased opinions against those of a lower &#8220;class&#8221;.</p>
<p>having said this, we Singaporeans want to be CEO, Bank managers, Doctors, Safety Officers, Architects etc. We constantly forget that someone still has to be the bank teller, the construction worker, the nurses, and the night soil workers.</p>
<p>Like what Pratim mentioned, the jobs of locals are not displaced by those of foreigners, simply because they are here, to patch up the potholes of a fully functioning society which we refuse to fill.</p>
<p>Certainly there are many immigrants who take on high paying jobs in large firms. That is simply because the firm deems it as a requirement for the company, to gain perspective which most of of us Singaporeans do not posses. Inversely, we have Singaporeans who immigrate to Canada, Australia, and other parts of the world.</p>
<p>It is definitely difficult for foreigners to integrate adequately into our society, simply because the ethnic group we have locally are all tainted with that of another, and cannot be deemed &#8220;pure&#8221; in any way.<br />
If an Indian (from India) were to come to Singapore, he would be confused by the Kway-Teow, Nasi-Ikan, and Teh-Chino that the Indian stalls serve ( i.e. Prata Shops ). </p>
<p>Integrating the foreigners is never an easy task here, because in order to be deemed a &#8220;Singaporean&#8221;, you would need to understand a little of every ethnic group, and be able to tolerate each of their diverse practices.</p>
<p>I truly believe that a &#8220;Dummy&#8217;s guide to being Singaporean&#8221; could be of much help in such circumstances.</p>
<p>However, the &#8220;Speak Good English Campaign&#8221; seems to attempt to eradicate our globally renowned &#8220;Singlish&#8221;.<br />
Singlish is a byproduct of our Society&#8217;s delicate entanglement, something that all of us Singaporeans can truly call &#8220;Ours&#8221;, as it transverses all ethnic groups. Malays who say &#8220;Makan already Lah&#8221;, Chinese who say &#8220;Mata lai liao&#8221;, and Indians who say &#8220;Siao la you&#8221;, can only come from Singapore (or in some cases, Malaysia).</p>
<p>True, we need to retain a high standard of the English language so as to communicate proficiently those of  Western Origins, but honestly speaking, as long as you are from another Country, the slang is bound to catch up with you. Canadians, Americans, Australians, and British people are frequently laughing at each other&#8217;s slang, and all these countries speak &#8220;proper English&#8221;. If they do, and still suffer such a fate, why then should we morph into something we are not just to satisfy them when we are already capable of communicating with them adequately.</p>
<p>Personally, i feel that integration into our complex society, simply requires one to open one&#8217;s mental eyes, and observe, identify, and respect our diverse practices. one does not require to say &#8220;lah, lee, loh, siao, bayee, thumbi, makan, liao&#8221; in order to be called a Singaporean. Saying these, is just a byproduct of being in a mixed society long enough.</p>
<p>my 3 cents worth.</p>
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		<title>By: Pritam Singh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/2009/09/24/chua-ziliang-thinks-integration-cant-be-forced-by-government-initiatives/comment-page-1/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Pritam Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/?p=167#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Dear Zi Liang,

Thank you for the post. You make a very relevant point about the antecedents of Singapore society. This historical narrative cannot be ignored.

While it could well be within our destiny to be an immigrant society, this does not answer or deal with the grassroots concern of many Singaporeans which you allude to sharing at times. What did immigration correspond to for new immigrants into Singapore in decades gone by? Opportunity. Were there locals here who were displaced as a result of those opportunities seized by my grandfather for example? I dont think so. 

Is that the case today? Is the average immigrant taking away some local&#039;s job because that very immigrant is cheaper from a labour point of view? Are Singaporeans aware of the wider ramifications of the immigration policy in light of stagnant wages for the poorest in our society? Has the immigration policy anything to do with this? Quite simply, it would be historically problematic to compare immigration in pre-1965 Singapore with immigration today.

While I agree with your message of acceptance, respectfully, it doesn&#039;t go very far to bridge the serious reservations of many Singaporeans on the ground. I read your well-intentioned post urging acceptance of foreigners as suggesting that a serious problem exists. 

You say the government shouldn&#039;t get too hung up over integration issues. I think they should. They have not done very well convincing Singaporeans that this medicine must be swallowed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Zi Liang,</p>
<p>Thank you for the post. You make a very relevant point about the antecedents of Singapore society. This historical narrative cannot be ignored.</p>
<p>While it could well be within our destiny to be an immigrant society, this does not answer or deal with the grassroots concern of many Singaporeans which you allude to sharing at times. What did immigration correspond to for new immigrants into Singapore in decades gone by? Opportunity. Were there locals here who were displaced as a result of those opportunities seized by my grandfather for example? I dont think so. </p>
<p>Is that the case today? Is the average immigrant taking away some local&#8217;s job because that very immigrant is cheaper from a labour point of view? Are Singaporeans aware of the wider ramifications of the immigration policy in light of stagnant wages for the poorest in our society? Has the immigration policy anything to do with this? Quite simply, it would be historically problematic to compare immigration in pre-1965 Singapore with immigration today.</p>
<p>While I agree with your message of acceptance, respectfully, it doesn&#8217;t go very far to bridge the serious reservations of many Singaporeans on the ground. I read your well-intentioned post urging acceptance of foreigners as suggesting that a serious problem exists. </p>
<p>You say the government shouldn&#8217;t get too hung up over integration issues. I think they should. They have not done very well convincing Singaporeans that this medicine must be swallowed.</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle Goh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/2009/09/24/chua-ziliang-thinks-integration-cant-be-forced-by-government-initiatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle Goh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.blogtv.sg/starbloggers/?p=167#comment-76</guid>
		<description>cheers zi liang, enjoyed &amp; agreed with much of your write-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cheers zi liang, enjoyed &amp; agreed with much of your write-up.</p>
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